YouTube content creator Gaby Dunn recently wrote an article for Fusion that spread rapidly across the online video community. In her piece, Dunn lamented her financial situation: Despite gathering more than 500,000 subscribers on her channel, Just Between Us, she found herself regularly struggling to make rent. She relayed stories from several other YouTubers with sizable followings, who are also currently starring in ironic pictures of online stardom mixed with real-life struggles.
A lot of Dunn’s fellow YouTubers were sympathetic to her plight, but at the same time, some members of the community have raised legitimate counterarguments. One of the people in the latter camp is Jared Polin, a photographer who releases videos on a channel called Fro Knows Photo. Polin, like Dunn, can be classified as a “mid-sized” YouTuber. His channel, which is filled with photography tutorials and adventurous shoots, has about 465,000 subscribers and 66 million views.
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Shortly after we published our coverage of Dunn’s article, Polin reached out to me on Twitter. He had a very different story about life on YouTube. Despite having a similar subscriber count to Just Between Us, he is much more financially secure. I spoke to Polin about his online video career, and his response to Dunn’s article includes plenty of helpful advice for mid-sized YouTubers hoping to “make it.” Here’s our conversation:
[Note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.]
Tubefilter: Let’s start basic: What sort of revenue streams do you have?
Jared Polin: I have six or seven different revenue streams. Once you start to cultivate your following, and you interact with people day in, day out, you can offer things for sale like video guides. I’ve written three guides. Not everyone purchases them, but some people want to thank you for all the value you given them over six years.
Merch was the first thing I started selling. Ten days after I launched my website I sold my first t-shirt for 11.99. Everything I do has to be high-quality so that people want to come back for more.
YouTube is a nice little chunk of change. The split YouTube takes is sort of over-the-top, but what’s the alternative? YouTube gives me the ability to reach all the people I’ve reached, so that is kind of my payment. It’s a trade off.
Then you have brand deals with advertisers and sponsors, if you take them.
TF: What about other crowdfunding services or something like Patreon?
JP: I looked into it, but I don’t use it. I have things for sale so that if someone wants to thank me for the stuff I’ve done, I can offer them something for purchase. It helps me as a business. I want to give them something they can have, not just ask them for money.
TF: Let’s shift gears a bit and talk about Gaby Dunn’s article. She talks about the negative response she gets when she does a branded video. Has this been your experience as well?
JP: It’s all about transparency. It has to be the right fit. If you’re just gonna shill for Audible and it doesn’t make sense for your channel, it sounds terrible. You have to pick the right sponsors to work with. It’s important to look out for yourself and your following, and be honest with your users.
You can’t worry about losing people. I’ll use my email list as an example. When I send an email, I’m delivering solid content. Some people unsubscribe, but the people you’re losing, you can’t worry about them, because they weren’t interested in the first place. And for every negative comment you get about a sponsored video, there’s probably a ton more people who believe in what you do. They just aren’t going to comment because they don’t want to get into a YouTube comment war with an angry 12-year-old sitting behind a desk with nothing better to do.
TF: Do you think, though, that it helps that you’re a photographer? You have a very specific niche, and there are some natural brand partnerships there. Does that make it easier for you compared to a comedy or vlog channel?
JP: Just because I’m a photo channel doesn’t mean I have to do photo channel sponsorships. I spend a lot of time editing. So music sponsorships, like headphones, are an option. Squarespace is a perfect fit for photographers who need to build a website for themselves. I have a friend who has a deal with Casper, the mattress company. If I were to do a deal with Casper, how easy would it be to turn that into a photography shoot? You have to think how you can make it work for your channel. You can take any product and turn it into a photo shoot and have people be like, “I gained value from it.” That’s what I would think if they came to me and wanted to do a video.
TF: It was interesting to me–and judging from your initial message, this was a reaction of yours as well–that you and Gaby Dunn have such different opinions about making money on YouTube despite having such similar subscriber counts. Because of that, I’m curious what you think is the main indicator of financial success on YouTube? What do you think successful channels have in common?
JP: I share a lot of the business side with my readers. I’m very transparent. Part of being a photographer is teaching people about business. At some point, you’re making this stuff that you enjoy, and it starts to show it has potential to be a business. I didn’t say going in that I wanted this to be my business, but I made it one because my viewers wanted more content more often. You have to run your channel as a business. You have to do well. There’s nothing wrong with going for the sell.
There might be a million people doing what you’re doing, but you’ve got to establish yourself. You can’t worry about what other people are doing. If you’re writing comedy skits, then you need to figure out how you can reach your audience in a way that works for you. How can people thank you for the content you deliver them? It’s a value proposition. It’s what you do.
When you get as big as someone like Casey Neistat…it’s pretty insane what can happen, but it’s not the norm. For the guys chugging along with normal channels, you just figure out what works for you. I know one channel that has 250,000 subscribers but is bringing in multi-millions per year off of selling product. That’s the world most YouTubers don’t understand. Marketing.
TF: So in terms of brand deals, what works for you?
JP: I want to work within a long-term partnership. I won’t do a one-off. I want it to be good for me, good for my readers, and good for the sponsors. It has to work for everybody for it to be successful. Brands see long term value in working with me. When I choose to work with you, we’re the right fit together and there quantifiable results. If I do a code for a discount with a printing company, it’s great for everybody.
TF: What about the business side you’ve talked about? How did you teach yourself that?
JP: I was born into it. I have salespeople as a family. For other people, sometimes they may not be cut out to do it. If you’re afraid to ask for the sale, then you may not be cut out to ask for it. There are photographers who may not be the best photographers in the world, but they’re unbelievable at schmoozing, and they get great deals.
One of the best ways you can learn business is to embed yourself with someone who is successful at what they do. Mentoring is a strong thing. If there’s someone in your field, see if they would be amenable to mentoring you.
And then, it’s trial and error. You’re gonna fail. Then you’re gonna succeed. Then you’re gonna fail again.
